專訪網易汪源--雲原生時代的數字化轉型之道

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"blockquote","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"所謂數字化轉型是用數字化技術來開創新的商業模式。與之相對應的是，信息化沒有提到過創造新的商業模式，僅強調將物理世界映射到數字世界。"}]}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"2019年9月，阿里巴巴以20億美元正式收購網易考拉，並將品牌更名爲“考拉海購”，一時成爲網友熱議的話題，跨境電商也隨之愈發火熱。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"跨境電商除了商業層面與本土電商有較大差異，技術架構層面也較純國內電商難。成立於2015年的網易考拉，2019年用戶量已超過500萬，市場份額高居國內跨境電商公司之首，除了商業上的成功之外，其背後的技術架構也逐漸成爲後來者學習借鑑的對象。而這一切，離不開網易研究院的參與，正如網易研究院院長汪源所說“網易考拉是網易第一個全面容器化的業務，實踐證明，這條技術路線取得了巨大成功”。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"近期，InfoQ 上海站的 Arch Summit 大會邀請了網易杭州研究院院長汪源出席演講。小編趁此機會做了主題爲“雲原生時代的數字化轉型之道”的專訪，一窺互聯網巨頭的數字化轉型方法論與實踐探索。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"以下是訪談內容整理，分享給大家，Enjoy～"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":1},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"從網易考拉到網易雲音樂，雲原生操作系統在網易內部的實踐"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：以前您提到過雲原生操作系統的一大關鍵是使得軟件定義基礎設施的優勢更好發揮。這與以往的SDN（軟件定義網絡），SDH（軟件定義硬件）有什麼區別？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：他們之間是銜接關係。簡單來說，雲原生操作系統的作用是充分地調用軟件定義了的存儲、網絡和計算資源。現在很多雲廠商和傳統廠商都會提供很多開放接口，這些開放接口的背後就是衆多資源。這些資源先通過軟件定義，形成所謂的SDN、SDS等，然後對外通過API的形式開放給大家使用；與此同時，這些SDN、SDS本身並不知道如何管控資源，需要有一個操作系統來統一地調度管理，以將對應資源與業務需求對接起來。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"                                                                                                                                   "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：企業構建雲原生操作系統有哪些難點和注意事項？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：我說的雲原生操作系統是一個分佈式操作系統，通常包含多個數據中心。這些數據中心有的在自己公司，有的在公有云上，有的在國外，雲原生操作系統能將所有資源統一整合調度。做這件事主要有兩大難點，一個是操作系統本身的能力要強，能支持管理所有技術，包括雲上和雲下。同時操作系統的性能和穩定性要做的好，系統間的資源需要有很好的隔離性。第二個是能支持各種來源和種類的負載，包括來自數據庫、中間件，和屬於大數據、機器學習算法的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：雲原生在網易內部都有哪些優秀實踐？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：網易最早進行全面容器化的業務是考拉，後來賣給阿里了。現在全面容器化的有網易門戶，網易嚴選；另外網易雲音樂有大概1\/3容器化了。這些業務上雲的驅動因素各不相同，網易雲音樂是爲了提高業務出海的效率，當業務出海之後，需要在AWS上重新搭建基礎架構，此時利用雲原生架構就能堅固雲上和雲下，做到使用體驗完全一致。而傳媒是爲了降本增效，他們過去兩年通過大規模的混布，容器化將資源上雲，IT成本降低了一半。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：您認爲什麼樣的企業適合構建雲原生體系？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：業務面向衆多消費者或者面向大量小B的企業比較適合雲原生架構。首先這樣的企業對彈性的需求比較高，很多情況下做一次營銷流量就可能暴漲。同時由於這類企業發展曲線比較陡峭，2C業務今年有100萬用戶，明年可能就變成500萬，產品往往需要快速迭代，對架構的敏捷性要求很高。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"當然了，有的企業可能只有內部ERP或者OA系統，那麼搭建雲原生架構的意義就不大，因爲流量不會暴漲，也不需要，不能經常迭代系統。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":1},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"向數字化轉型發問，信息化與數字化是兩件事"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：如今數字化轉型逐漸步入深水區，很多傳統企業開始擁抱數字化。在您看來數字化轉型與過去的信息化有什麼區別和聯繫？數字化與信息化相比有哪些優勢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：業界現在有一個影響力很大的數字化轉型標準定義：所謂數字化轉型是用數字化技術來開創新的商業模式。與之相對應的是，信息化沒有提到過創造新的商業模式，僅強調將物理世界映射到數字世界。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"換句話說，我認爲數字化和信息化是兩件事情，二者的目標就不一樣。數字化的目標是開創新的商業模式，信息化的目標是降本增效。一個企業可能數字化程度很高了，但也得繼續做信息化的事情。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"因此，我認爲信息化會始終存在，因爲企業始終需要不斷優化內部的管理、流程。而不是說我做了數字化，信息化就不需要了，二者的目標不一樣。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"那麼所謂新的商業模式，核心包含價值產生、傳遞、支撐和實現四要素。對應到數字化轉型來說，價值產生的基礎是提供數字化的產品和服務；價值傳遞需要通過數字化營銷，渠道，市場來完成；價值支撐需要構建基礎的技術支撐平臺，然後利用數字化能力去組織企業資源，包括人力，財務等等。最後價值實現體現在企業財務方面，比如收入，利潤等。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我們把四要素再次抽象，提煉出兩個核心能力，一個叫軟件定義，一個叫數字智能。我們認爲數字化的產品和服務說的就是軟件，而數字化營銷，數字化的價值傳遞，都需要通過軟件完成。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"一個企業要做好數字化轉型，關鍵就是軟件定義得到的數據智能，當然，我們還提出軟件定義的基礎設施，其載體就是雲原生的操作系統，這在今天的會議上有詳細闡述。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":1},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"中臺之殤：中臺本身並不產生價值"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：現在很多企業做數字化轉型都會構建中臺，這個概念在業界也炒的特別火。但我們看到好多公司做了中臺之後，要麼ROI特別差，要麼根本不知道什麼時候纔能有效果，您怎麼看這個事情？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：我覺得很多人沒有理解中臺就開始構建，所以纔會導致這樣的結果。中臺本身不是直接面向前端的，中臺要產生價值，就必須去支持很多真正有產出的前臺，也就是說，前臺、中臺、後臺，是相互支撐的關係。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"一個好的中臺並不是直接面向用戶，管理層，或者分析的業務人員的，因此，它本身並不能產出價值。現實中我們看到，有些企業它本來沒有前臺，還非得去搞箇中臺，那當然就沒有收益了。反之，有很多企業原來只有後臺，例如ERP，財務等等，然後想把這些應用做一個大綜合，構建一個平臺。可問題在於依舊缺少前臺。他們或許會做一點前臺的試點應用，可由於規模太小，產生不了明顯價值，同時中臺構建很重，投入也很大。就顯得很不合理。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：那麼企業如果沒有足夠多的前臺應用，是不是就無法通過構建中臺產生價值了呢？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：其實在生產實踐中，如果要真正要發揮中臺的效益，我們會選擇幫客戶做好數據中臺，再做好數據產品（形成前臺），最後中臺跟前臺配套，纔會有效益。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"heading","attrs":{"align":null,"level":1},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"從K8s 開始，網易定位於基礎軟件提供商"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：雲原生助力企業數字化轉型這條路，您覺得現在還有什麼比較難突破的嗎？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：雲原生的技術路線基本上已經摸清楚了，可操作性很強，網易內部也有比較多的應用。同時在外部比如銀行業也達成了合作。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我們認爲雲原生這類核心基於K8S的平臺，會是接下來至少十年的主流平臺，但目前整套技術體系還不是特別完善，尤其是非互聯網行業，比如銀行，能源，由於Know-How不夠多，碰到一些問題還是沒有一個達成共識的解決方案，比如傳統企業要上雲，需要上混合雲，又需要多種負載，到底怎麼解決？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：針對這些難題，網易做了哪些探索和實踐，您能簡單介紹一下嗎？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：當時比較麻煩的幾個事情，一個是大數據平臺能不能做到存算分離，一個是在YAM這個基礎調度框架下，大數據的體系架構能不能很好地跑在K8s上，換句話說，YAM和K8s 如何能很好地融合？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"我們當時院裏有一個Spark的Committer，讓他帶頭解決這個問題，當時在內部給這個項目取名叫QB。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"另一個比較複雜的事情是 Service Mesh的採用。首先不確定EStudio這個技術能不能在未來十年都是Service Mesh的主流開源技術，原因是它一直沒有成爲一個開源基金會主導的技術。同時，這個技術是比較複雜的，現在網易嚴選，傳媒都在大規模使用，但一開始這個技術的探索還是花了很多時間，因爲他的門檻還是比較高的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}},{"type":"strong"}],"text":"主持人：未來在商業化，還有技術層面還有哪些比較明確的計劃？"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"汪源：我們商業化的主題一個叫青州，一個叫有數。前一個是雲原生中間件這套技術棧。後一個是面向數據智能的技術棧，這是我們商業化的主體。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":" "}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"color","attrs":{"color":"#494949","name":"user"}}],"text":"此外，我們在市場上的定位是比較獨特的。市場上幾家公有云的巨頭如阿里、華爲、騰訊主要提供基礎設施，包括一開始的公有云和現在的專有云。而我們主要提供基礎軟件。那麼對於客戶來說，基礎設施我絕對不會只用一家，否則我會被強行綁定。於是在多家公有云上客戶就需要有一個基礎軟件，這個軟件就是我們來做。"}]}]}